sexagenarian youth: four manhattan conversations
CONVERSATION IN UPTOWN BRANCH OF COMMERCE BANK AROUND NOON, THURSDAY 10 JANUARY
(as I hand the young, female teller a check and a deposit slip, she does something on a screen in front of her and then looks up at me)
TELLER: Are you sure that’s your account you’re depositing that in?
ME: Whose else’s would it be??
TELLER: You look so much younger than it says here.
ME: I do???
TELLER: Yes, you look much younger.
ME: You mean, when someone deposits a check, your computer tells you their age?
TELLER: Yes.
ME: [getting interested] How young do you think I look?
TELLER: In your 30s.
ME: You’ve made my day.
TELLER: [smiles]
ME: Can you accept the check now?
TELLER: Yes.
ME: Okay, now seriously: how old do you think I look? and how old are you?
TELLER: Well, I’m 22, and you look lots younger than my mother, and she’s in her early 50s.
ME: Thank you very much.
FROM PREVIOUS POST: CONVERSATION IN UPTOWN WINE-BAR, WEDNESDAY 9 JANUARY
I wrote that my Wednesday evening date talked on and on about
how beautiful I am and how I am just the woman for him, when am I going to be free to see him again, etc. He asks me what age men usually think I look, implying that I look much, much younger etc. etc. I say I don’t know because I never asked, but that is a lie: Performer used to tell me in bed that I had the body of a twenty-year-old.
I guess I should have known the relationship was going downhill when Performer told me I had the body of a twenty-five-year-old.
CONVERSATION WITH ROLLY’S SHRINK, MORNING, THURSDAY 10 JANUARY
I went to ‘consult’ with him, so he could hear my account of what went wrong with Dr. J. , my shrink until 2 weeks ago, and get some sense of what I’m like so he could recommend someone else. I watched his face carefully as I told my story, and we discussed Dr. J.’s responses to my evolving romance with Performer (my violinist ex-boyfriend who went back to his wife, having advertised himself as ‘divorced’ and ’single’).
And then, about 10 minutes after we had moved to another subject, I suddenly remembered something:
“Oh! I forgot something important!”
“What was that?” he asked.
“I forgot to mention, that one of the many reasons Dr. J. gave that he dismissed every account I gave of problems with Performer, and that he always seemed to take Performer’s point of view, was that he said he ‘identified with’ me and wanted the relationship to work out.“
At that Rolly’s psychiatrist scowled a bit, and I could tell he did not like what he had just heard. And suddenly I had the illumination I should have had months ago: I realized with horror and a bit of disgust that my psychiatrist had found me attractive, and that had determined all the ‘advice’ he gave me — for which I was paying quite a bit.
“But he wasn’t identifying with me,” I continued. “He was identifying with Performer. That’s why he always said that whatever Performer said was right: when I said that P was being nasty, he said, ‘He needs your support,’ without ever asking me if I was supporting him anyway; and that’s why he said, ‘He doesn’t like criticism’ — who does like criticism? But Dr. J. was thinking of himself. Now I see why Dr. J. is an expert on counter-transference: he was attracted to me — he isn’t much older than some of the men I dated — and that’s why Performer could do no wrong in his view, why he approved and blessed all the things that disturbed me about P, that he wasn’t telling his children the truth, that he was still sharing a bed with his wife, and all the rest of it. Dr. J. was thinking vicariously through Performer. And that was guiding everything he told me — all of it, in the event, entirely wrong.”
* * *
Rolly’s shrink looked at me directly, seemed to nod, but didn’t say anything.
I told him I suddenly remembered that Dr. J still had a book I had given him, and that I realized I wanted it back.
“Maybe I should send him a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ask him to return it?”
“I think it would be a very good idea if you did that,” said the shrink, in one of the few direct confirmations he made. “I think it would be good for you to send him an envelope and ask for it back.”
* * *
HINDSIGHT, FORESIGHT, HAIR
This is truly not the way people have responded to me all my life, bank-tellers and dates and boyfriends and psychiatrists struck with the brightness of my youthful glow.
Well, if these responses are a sign of my continuing marketability, that’s good. I can pinpoint the problem, then: it’s not how I look or act with men, it’s access to new men, more men: that’s what I need.
I’m not vain and I never have been. Au contraire, I’ve always been somewhat worried about my looks: is my hair lying flat (it usually isn’t)? do I look fat in this skirt? am I wearing too much black? do I look pale and puffy (without makeup, I usually do)? do I look tired?
So it’s not vanity but surprise and a bit of bewilderment that I feel, with all these comments and insights occurring in fewer than 24 hours.
* * *
A sour note, as I was strung along by the violinist: I remember in one of our last pre-dump conversations, Performer said something about my grey hair. He said that it made me look ‘older’ — I guess he was distancing himself from my “body of a twenty-year-old,” preparing himself psychologically for the return to his fat, ugly wife, who dyes her hair, which is short enough to allow sight of the ring of dark moles around her neck. He then mentioned a never-married former colleague of mine, a few years older than I, who does dye her hair, and he said that — for that reason — she looked younger than I.
I really doubted that; I know what people think of her, and no one comments on her “youth.” Not a bit. So I was baffled that he would say that.
So you think I should dye my hair? I asked.
* * *
There was a long pause, and finally he said, No.
It’s good you said that, I responded, because I’m not going to.
* * *
With hindsight, I think he said ‘no’ because he knew he was going to dump me, and there would be no point in my dyeing my hair to please him.
* * *
Even if he had said that dyeing my hair was a deal-breaker, I wouldn’t have. You can be sure. In that case, I would have — sensibly — begun to feel some doubts about him.
* * *
Why is youthfulness wasted on the middle-aged?
January 12, 2008 at 3:58 am
How much plastic surgery have you had?
And who did it? (I live in Manhattan too, looking for someone good)
January 12, 2008 at 4:49 am
i assume you’re joking.
i’ve never had plastic surgery in my life and never intend to.
January 12, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Interesting dialogue. I stumbled across a link from The Times’ City Blog. Me? Male, 63, formerly corporate, now in training for counseling (second) career. The students may not be up to CCNY’s standards when I was there but today…. computers, e-mail, access to the school’s library and databased from my home, PDF files of full-text research, PowerPoint…. I am totally enjoying this. As to Internet dating:
I’ve been divorced for a long time, found online match-making a bit frustrating albeit viable, more so for a woman than a man. Your 30 dates translate into a not insignificant outlay (I know, a double negative, but sometimes they work better). Granted, they were absorbed by 30 separate men but think about each of them picking up 30 tabs.
Setting aside monetary outlays (yeah, when they say, “it’s not about the money” … it’s about the money), I found that when I was an executive and younger (I don’t want to lie about my age but look younger — a quandary for an honest guy), I was more marketable on paper. The old saw about the different initial priorities men and women have — visual attraction vs. wealth and power — is true in the online environment.
There should be a meet-and-greet site for “children of the ’sixties’ who retain their flower power values. I do applaud your sharing your experiences and views. Your awareness that chemistry is between the ears (assuming a baseline level of attraction) is laudatory.
My only suggestions are: slow down, spend a bit more time getting to know someone outside the four corners of a formal date (global warming has made Central Park accessible even in January for an afternoon stroll), and stop counting the dates.
Age, you have discovered, is irrelevant once we meet someone we like, but so many Internet searchers make assumptions based on the number that a lot of very interesting and sexy folks don’t want to bother — or lie and that creates doubt in their general integrity once the lie gets them together with someone. Ugh.
Final thought: You reference JDate. I checked it out years ago and found that, as a child of a mixed marriage, my “Jewish” status was not up to the standards of women who seek out a religion-specific Web site. At my age, if someone has a spiritual component, as I do, I have no need for further information as to their concept of a Higher Power. After all, we don’t have to decide whether our sons are going to be circumcised or baptized, do we?
Never talked back to a blog other than political ones related to my public service so I don’t know if this is a one-way monologue or ….. Interesting, anyway.
January 12, 2008 at 8:17 pm
am i the only one who finds it odd that you are pursuing all of rolly’s doctors? a way of getting close to him, through individuals who have to accept your advances (and your $?) even if he agreed to give out the numbers, it is a peculiar game you are playing.
January 12, 2008 at 9:30 pm
js, until april 2007 all my doctors were in another city. rolly has a medical background, and all his recommendations are excellent. i’ve used recs from some of my female friends even more often, but i don’t blog about them.
yorkville dave, if you check out this post –
http://sexagenarian07.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-jdate-economy-men-money-who-pays/ — from march, you’ll see that i always offer to pay. in my experience, about half the time the men allow me to, and i do; i just don’t make a fetish of paying. in the cases of the two i had relationships w., my ‘outlay’ [yr term] was, in the long run, greater than theirs. and of the ones who’ve paid for me, to a man, they’ve said, ‘you’re a cheap date.’
a date in central park is still a date. i actually find it easier and more fun to talk across a table (with a drink) than to talk while walking and looking sideways. chacun a son gout.
and finally, about jdate: there are plenty of atheists, agnostics, and utterly unaffiliated people, male and female, on jdate. the jdate men i’ve dated have been entirely unobservant, which is what i prefer.
thanks for ‘talking back to a blog’ yr first time, yorkville dave.
January 13, 2008 at 4:14 am
Sexy, you’ve satisfied my curiosity about how it is possible for a woman in her 60s to get a date, if you really look that good. At the same time you have the rest of us, who are sagging and bagging in our 40s and can’t get a date, feeling bad!
You ought to post a pic—yours is already up for the universe to see on dating sites, but I understand why you don’t want it here, a lot more personal stuff. Still you ought to, not your face, but maybe a bathing suit shot.
Don’t take this the wrong way.
January 13, 2008 at 4:35 am
Most middle-aged daters think they look young for their years. See, for instance, the comment above from a 63-yr-old man who says he ‘looks younger’ than his age. For all we know he may; the way “60″ looks has obviously changed.
January 14, 2008 at 12:05 am
mimi, here is a bit of cognitive dissonance on your part:
you said that you reacted negatively to FG partly because of his estrangement from his family. and yet when Perv-former decided to keep his family intact, you were not so keen on that.
(here’s what i actually think, because of course the above two facts are not mutually exclusive. i think family stuff has nothing to do with your lack of interest in FG. i think that it is just so hard to pinpoint why, that people seek negative things they can articulate, when in fact the only reason that matters is simply that there was no vibe. yet there’s still that intellectual impulse to find a reason.)
January 14, 2008 at 4:06 am
the prob with performer was not that he went back to his family but that he lied to me about it for three weeks! — sleeping with his exwife and me at same time, making plans w. both etc.; discussing his ‘predicament’ w. all his friends etc; exwife knew but i didn’t.
and the prob with FG, whom i liked in a way, is that he deliberately ended contact with all his family members. the actual story, which of course i can’t put online, is very, very sad, and i can’t believe he doesn’t wish he hadn’t done it. there are many other problems with fg also, but that partic one resonates w. me in a way that is very painful.
but it’s not really cognitive dissonance, because it’s the dishonesty on performer’s part, not his family values.
January 14, 2008 at 4:38 am
Thanks for a funny, thought-provoking post.
It is amazing what people will do, and how much they will pay, for the hope that they can be more attractive. Hair dye is the very least of it. It’s quite possible that you look younger because you are “out of step” with your cohort as far as their efforts with hair, fashion, make up etc.
Personally, I’m too lazy for all that stuff. There are better things to do with my time and money!
January 14, 2008 at 4:46 am
when i think about that issue, first i think ‘capitalism!’ and the whole industry that depends on and drives those needs, but then i remember the egyptians and all the stuff they did to look beautiful, and i begin to feel that ‘beautification’ is as inevitable as cooking……
January 14, 2008 at 9:31 am
for those who missed it, here is mimi in the nyt:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/get-into-it-its-mad-easy/#comments
January 15, 2008 at 3:03 am
Mimi, how cool that you got a mention in the Times - you rock!
I’d love to hear about this potential guy you mentioned — maybe I’m a spaz, but I couldn’t find your e-mail address anywhere here! Can you drop me a line at loverville@gmail.com?
thanks!
LV
January 15, 2008 at 3:10 am
hi lv, already sent you a message to that addr. read it & write back. this might be fun….
mimi
January 15, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Every time you tell us more about Performer’s behavior, I have flashbacks to that idiot Joe I dated. I am reminded of one of our last dates. We were facing each other and holding hands and I asked him what he was thinking. Normally, he would say something nice to me but this time he said, “I’m thinking that your breath stinks like coffee.” I was so shocked I didn’t even know what to say. But it’s just like you said, he was already distancing himself from me so he could rid his conscience of the guilt … LOL … he was feeling for cheating on his live-in girlfriend. OK, I’m joking about that part. I really doubt he felt any guilt but it probably was a distancing tactic. Mimi, you don’t need a shrink. Heck, you should charge people to be their shrinks. You’ve got this all figured out.
January 15, 2008 at 3:08 pm
sounds very similar, michele. as i look back, i can see precisely when the distancing began & have even figured out when he started sleeping w. his ex-wife. ho hum! i think you’re exactly right about ‘ridding his conscience of guilt…’